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Author Topic: Chat re Wrecking Ball demos  (Read 1057 times)
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leesumitter
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« on: February 20, 2005, 02:31:48 PM »

I'm starting this thread because I'd like to hear what people think and have to say about the amazing collection of Wrecking Ball demos (or outtakes?) that have recently been torrented on www.easytree.org.  As I mentioned there, here are some of MY opening questions, although I'd be interested to hear any and all comments.

- are any of these really "demos"? (i.e., "just a quick take at home to give you an idea where I want to go"?)  I don't think they are

- are all of these live takes?  are there overdubs (I haven't specifically noticed any)?  are they basic tracks/alternate mixes of what was finally released?

- personnel?

- differences between these tracks and final?  (e.g., "All My Tears" doesn't have the thumping bass sound (or backing vocals) that define the album version, "Deeper Well" is at a faster tempo (I think))

- speculation as to how these fit in chronologically to the production of the final album?

- merits of discarding "Still Water," "How will I ever be simple again," and the third unreleased track?  And why isn't there even a preliminary working version of "The Maker," when they played this throughout the following tour?

- what about the sequencing?  (I assume the tracks appear here in a non-thought-out, random order)

- any thoughts on how this tape came to be, and how it came to be "released"?  is it a single thing, or multiple things patched together?  was it intended for release in this form?

Interested to hear reactions from any and all!
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Santiago
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2005, 04:44:28 PM »

Great idea for discussion!

Well, here is my theory:

I think these represent the rough mixes of the songs after the Nashville sessions (if we believe the easytree poster) , made to document and summarise the sessions.
Lanois has said in many interviews that he likes to make a rough mix at the end of a day of recording.

He also said in "Building the Wrecking ball" that many songs were recorded live and then further elements were overdubbed. Most of them sound very live, the only possible overdub I have noticed is Goodbye as Larry Mullen plays both hand drum and drumkit.

The personnel is likely to be Lanois, Emmylou, Malcolm Burn, Tony Hall (who plays in many of the final versions of these songs) and Larry Mullen (he plays drums on the finished versions of most of these songs. The only song where he plays that is not here is, I think, the final version of Deeper well [did this come from a different Nashville take or from a later session?- no idea]. Lanois says audibly, bridge, Larry on May this be love and the drums in those songs sound a lot (if not excatly) like the final ones).

Very intriguingly Lanois counts in one of the songs in French. I wonder why. Maybe Tony Hall, being from New Orleans speaks French?

Also Lucinda Williams and Steve Earle seem to be there (Lucinda's finger-picked guitar, which Lanois refers to in the "Building the Wrecking Ball"  audio interview, can be clearly heard).

The only one were the record version is almost certainly a completely different take is, as you say, Deeper well, because of the different tempo.

The rest are mostly still lacking backing vocals (from Neil Young, Daryl Johnson, etc...) and other elements (Goodbye lacks Danny's additional electric guitar), but are probably the same basic tracks as the final versions.

So i think that all these remaining elements where added to these tracks in overdub sessions in Kingsway Studios, New Orleans, with Brian Blade, Daryl Johnson, and all the remaining guests. It was there as well that most likely the additional songs (Where will I be?, Going back to Harlan, the finished version of Deeper Well and Blackhawk) were recorded in their entirety...

This is my best guess at the moment. Though I am a great fan of the finished product (the wonderful backing vocals, the thumping sound you mention in all my tears...), I also like these more laidback versions of the songs, they are somehow more intimate.

No idea about the sequencing, probably random?

And as for Still water, and the other new songs, well, they sound great, but I need to listen more to them before I can give a proper opinion...

Interested in insights/theories others might provide...

Santiago


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Santiago
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2005, 03:29:37 AM »

Actually, the keyboards, the bass riff and the backwards sounds(maybe the drums too) from this version of Still Water sound very very familiar...

I think it might be because they are sampled in the finished version of deeper well!

I am not 100% about this but it really sounds like this to me. What does everybody else think?

Santiago
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leesumitter
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2005, 07:23:44 AM »

Santiago:  Thanks for your very thoughtful comments.  I'm not in a position to respond in detail right now, but it's exactly that type of discussion I was hoping to hear (and man -- I need to get ahold of a copy of "building the wrecking ball"!).
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Santiago
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2005, 08:09:56 AM »

Apropos "Building the Wrecking Ball" I only have the audio CD version, a promo I found at Amoeba records in LA (I couldn't believe my luck).

It's basically an interview of Danny and Emmylou about Wrecking Ball, with some snippets early versions of some songs in the background (they are very short, but are really interesting) and then the final versions of the songs.

I am also looking for the "Building the Wrecking Ball" video (which is the full documentary, not just this audio interview), as it probably has even more info.

Santiago
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Santiago
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2005, 08:10:20 AM »

.
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Santiago
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2005, 09:21:58 AM »

I have now listened to the new songs more carefully, and investigated their origins:

"How will I ever be simple again?" is apparently a Richard Thompson song. The lyrics are quite beautiful, the war-related imagery and the sparse drums/mandolin main setting remind me in some ways of Where will I be? I think it is good enough to have been on the record

About "Never be gold" I haven't found anything. It seems too much like traditional country to be a Lanois or Emmylou Harris original, but I don't know...
I find it a bit weaker, but still ok, with good Emmylou vocals and Lanois guitar.

and Still Water is very good, in particular, Lanois's acoustic (maybe it's a dobro?)

Santiago
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Santiago
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2005, 09:23:55 AM »

sorry, double posting again
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leesumitter
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2005, 04:58:37 PM »

Santiago:  I've really enjoyed all of your comments.  You really should post them to the easytree.org thread, where others will see them.  I'm happy to synthesize your posts into one post (a mini-essay!), and do it myself (giving you credit, of course, either by name or "an intrepid soul posted the following observations at the acadie list").

I only suggest this because I find your comments (or is it "our discussion"?) really interesting, and really add to my enjoyment every time I put this disc on (which has been almost repeatedly since getting it just this Sunday!).  I'd love to see others who are equally "into it" posting THEIR thoughts, and hopefully seeing your comments would spark some debate.  My one criticism of BitTorrent sites is that the only posts, other than perfunctory "thanks," are "can someone re-open this?," "is there any art for this?" "isn't there a better version," or "does this have SBEs?"  It's great to have someone actually talking about the music (which we're all nuts for, let's admit it).
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Santiago
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2005, 05:05:22 PM »

Thanks! that's rather flattering.

I will try to write a neat summary for easytree. This is one of my favourite records, and it's interesting to try to piece all the facts together...

Regards,

Santiago
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